That Idea of 'Removing' the Hive Rewards Pool
The second Town Hall event happened a few nights back. It was probably the first time that most founders of the different DApps on Hive came together and discussed everything about the blockchain and even marketing (user acquisition or onboarding and retaining users).
It was humbling to listen to them all, sharing their thoughts about various things. Founders updated us about what they are doing behind the scenes - the efforts they are making to onboard users through their own initiatives, and other specific things they are on to. Here are just a few of those I remember from what I heard from the show:
DBUZZ founders for instance shared that they are focused on real-life events by reaching out to schools, onboarding to in-house education where they teach about Hive (content creation among other things), and encouraging them. They are even setting up and providing free internet access to a college campus which they can use to interact with Hive DApps.
Actifit (Mcfarhad) reaching out and collaborating with colleges.
Ecoinstant shared he's collaborating with Spanish onboarding and also developing a platform (Dreamer) that allows group posting by using a single Hive account. People can log in with Web 2 socials and submit a post and (you) the key holder may edit it and post it to Hive.
Liketu founder Elmer Lin also mentioned that they support smaller communities (Venezuelan) from the ground up.
Waivio allows users to have their social shops without having to keep inventories and they will be bringing in influencers to start their social shops.
There were more things shared like referral rewards to those who onboard people and such.
Then the contentious idea of having the Hive rewards pool removed was brought out by Rondon. Some founders agreed to it - including Khal who said there are other ways for frontends to reward their users and made the Leo Ads and Evergreen smart contracts as an example.
This I believe won't just happen anytime soon though. It will take time and of course, the consensus amongst witnesses and Hive stakeholders. So let's not sweat about it, or should we?
That is because there are things to consider. My limited and non-technical mind thinks the governance will have to be considered, how are users going to be incentivized or rewarded for their activities so they will stick around, how are the stakeholders going to earn, how's HIVE going to be distributed, and so on.
Nothing to get stressed about, yeah?
Honestly speaking, I agree with Jessica, Bil.prag, Nonso, and others - that the distribution of HIVE through the rewards pool is what makes it unique. It's what makes Hive, Hive. Removing it altogether is like getting rid of Hive's very own identity, if I may term it that way. But of course, I'm not going to be closed-minded and would definitely listen to further discussions about it.
Rondon asked the others what their runways were or the timeframe if this pushed through. He obviously knows that there are certain complications and things that need to be considered so it will not just happen anytime soon.
Jarvie (Peakd) shared his thoughts of shifting the mindset from the rewards to viewership and engagement or building a brand.
SkateHive voiced their concern that if the rewards pool is removed, their community will die.
Nathan also feels that the removal of the rewards pool will negatively impact the economics and governance of Hive and suggested another open discussion about it.
Personal Thoughts
The Town Hall is a good channel to learn things, especially about the Hive ecosystem. It was initiated by Eric, TM, Jongo, and Nifty with the specific purpose of bridging communities. Here's a brief intro about it:
Town-Hall is an initiative designed to bring advancement, provide guidance, inform the community, debate scenarios, argue about the blockchain, and more, all on behalf and with the participation of the Hive community: Witnesses, stakeholders, community leaders, and community members.
It starts with an account, a witness node, and discussions.
Source
The Town Hall space happens each month and the second one occurred recently and it was where the idea of completely removing the Hive rewards pool was proposed brought about by downvotes and the advent of AI. It is a floating idea and it might be discussed in detail sometime in the future.
I believe there will be more noise to come if this idea gets pushed around. Although it is too early to get worked up about, it is a topic that needs to be discussed amongst the community and an open conversation may happen in December. We shall be on the lookout and it will be interesting to listen to what more people will have to say.
Posted Using InLeo Alpha
Sounds like these 'Town Hall' meetings need to start occurring on chain so there is a verifiable record of what is being discussed.
I agree. Someone has to build an app to be used :)
Isn't Sting Chat and https://openhive.chat/home on chain?
It is yes. I've not been checking after my first try when it launched. It would be great indeed. I wonder if it has the feature where speakers can talk like they do on X Spaces.
I am unsure also.
What I do know is that traditionally Town Halls occur in the Town the community is located in and not 'the town next door' so to speak.
Haha, yeah. That makes sense. Ironically, the town halls are happening on X, not here :)
Yeah. Initially I was okay with that because I understand the rationale behind it.
Now though, I am heavily leaning towards them being held on chain so we can all see who says what and like I said have it be 'verifiable'.
Yes, I see your point :) Let's hope Sting Chat will have more features so there will be no more reasons for things to be done off chain.
This needs to be brought up at the next town hall maybe... that it should be on-chain
Agreed.
Just to clarify my sentiment on a verifiable record... I mean anyone can impersonate anyone saying anything on those Web2 platforms.
That's true too and your sentiment is warranted considering AI can also be used to do that.
Oh yeah I did not even consider the AI factor! Whoa!
Maybe while the Web2 Town Halls are occurring those who are speaking could be encouraged to post to the chain to verify that it is in fact them speaking. Or something along those lines.
My mind is blown ...
It's on X?
Wow...
This is a fantastic summary and I really appreciate you doing this - I was only telling @nomadsoul that the reason I can't attend the town hall is because it's on in the middle of the night for me! So I'm stoked you summarised it so well.
I really respect Rondon and other witnesses and leaders input and ideas, that's for sure! I'd really love a HIve that wasn't just about the money, but had great engagement. I just can't see that happening. I'm not sure I'd even stay around, although I do love the communities and people here.
Thank you :) I was so interested to listen so I slept during the day and stayed up haha. It was midnight for me too.
This depends on the people.
For some reason, most people focus on posting, instead of commenting.
Probably this is mostly the result of the wrong marketing both with Steem and with Hive too. I still see people putting the "vote, post, earn" stickers on various place. No wonder that it attracts the wrong people.
Without the rewards, currently probably more than the 90% of the Hive users would disappear.
Hive needs real use cases, and a proper marketing.
I am guilty of posting more than comments right now as flat out busy. I love to write but now I have the guilts and will do a comment bomb or two this weekend. People use Hive in all kinds of ways. But seriously most of my friendships here have nothing to do with the rewards pool now. 💗💗 still I wouldn't have met them without it!
It makes me think of the saying: If it is not broken then do not try to fix it!
There are always some ripples like last time it was about reducing the hbd interest rate and now removing the reward pool. I am.too jot so technical but such limitation would definately makes user to think about posting their content.
That's true, it will always attract different opinions so we will see how things go with this one. The thing is that Hive has been marketed as a place or social media where we users monetize their content and that probably is one of the sides that will have to be tackled.
!PIZZA
Everything is ok but this one has a good amount of risk. I think many users will try to misuse the feature for the reward and bring many scammers. I think with moderating it will work better. My suggestion is that the reward should be given if the new onboarded user remains active for several months at least 1.5 months without doing any illegal things here.
What do you think? I just said my thoughts.
!PIZZA
That's true too, Inti. Referral rewards are one of those things that can easily get abused. I'm sure there will be mechanics in place when this gets applied to Hive.
Great input :)
!PIZZA
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The town hall space was so educative, I enjoyed listening to all the speakers, it felt good to hear all the founders coming together for a common purpose of growth for the Hive ecosystem, I am excited I joined the Zealy campaign because I learned a lot during the campaign, just that I was quite exhausted from all the continuous spaces and quest. hehe
Good to hear, Amie. Zealy was quite an adventure. Exhausting but yes, we did learn quite a lot through the quests. Now we can have a good rest until the next one comes, haha!
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I did not hear the discussion but what was the though on how to distribute hive instead? As things stand now, the inflation rate will continue to decrease until it reaches 0.95% and is distributed like this (according to the first whitepaper I found anyway):
So where would that 65% go instead?
I suppose second layer tokens could be used for rewards instead (as is done with Leo already) but how does this help hive or its value? Hopefully this is the kind of stuff that will be covered in the next discussion.
There was nothing discussed yet about things like that as they agreed to have another session solely for it. Let's hope these questions will get answered by then.
If I'm not mistaken, Rondon mentioned he will make a post within a month or so and my guess is that he will share why he proposed the idea.
Thanks for sharing the numbers on how the distribution is being done. I'm not even aware of the percentages.
I also see L2 tokens would be another reward method but like your question, how will that help Hive indeed? I'm sure the next discussion will be very interesting.
I admit that my first reaction was extremely negative but I don't think it would have to be a bad thing. Hive would still be needed for transactions (i.e. for resource credits) and for governance. Presumably the 65% would get spread among the remaining categories. A larger amount to stakeholders for instance could encourage more investment.
The one key piece of the puzzle missing for me is how rewards would work moving forward as I think they would still be needed. Obviously, some kind of second layer token makes sense but in my opinion it would have to be one that could be used by any interface and I'm not sure how feasible that is. I don't think Hive currently has a big enough user base to support the idea of separate tokens for every on ramp to hive. I'm not sure separate tokens for hive.blog, ecency, PeakD, etc. would really make sense though I know Leo is making it work.
If it could be done, this could even be used as a marketing opportunity. A sort of Hive rebrand and relaunch.
It is a pretty natural reaction. I too was saying "WTF, is this guy crazy?" when I heard Rondon brought it out in the Town Hall. But yes, there are a lot of complexities that need to be tackled and considered.
I also have a similar thought, each frontend having its own L2 tokens isn't quite sensible considering the small userbase we have here in terms of active content creators.
We will keep an eye on the next town hall and Rondon's post about why he brought out the idea.
Why is it that whenever we have a good thing going, people want to downgrade?
People's silly comments:
How about we have more badass unique features that make us competitive—YEAH, what if we tried that?
I obviously do not have any answer to that but let's see how this idea pans out. More badass features will surely get Hive into people's radar :)
I think features that spread the wealth or allow people to generate passive income are a powerful incentive for people—from high HBD interest to liquidity rewards and even trading and providing liquidity to liquidity token pool tokens—the pool token inception.
If they say lower HBD interest to 10%, I say let's raise it to 25%. People need a reason to hold as developers create more utility (NFTs, games, real-world use, third-party lending). Also, as central banks raise their general fund interest rates and similar interest rates, a cryptocurrency needs to be more competitive with "savings accounts." Not every coin can be Bitcoin, with few user-focused features, and be valuable only by name.
I'm sure the devs can do something great.
Fuck yeah! :D
(@ifarmgirl ... the passion I am about to express is not directed at you. I'm just a little tired of this idea ... content creators have stayed here through the bear and kept the chain alive, and the idea of throwing their reward for that into uncertainty while the world is still going through so many crises annoys me GREATLY. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.)
In English, Loud and Clear
LISTEN, EVERYONE ... Hive's major distinction is that Hive literally keeps people alive through that reward pool, around the world, and has done so through three years of a pandemic. Hive LITERALLY empowers its community to LIVE. In addition, you've got Hivers here getting crypto adoption through the bear -- people need to pay attention to what @mcsamm, @hivedeb, @hivesucre, and @lacasitahive have been doing in particular in their home countries -- and then you have @skatehive doing unique work.
As of today, I was No. 1 in Wealth Management and No. 7 in Personal Finance in Amazon's Kindle Store for my new book -- and in that new book, I have Hive out there equal for consideration with Bitcoin and Ethereum because of what it is doing in the world. I assure you, if Hive's witnesses agree to take all this progress so many are working to build away -- if removing a sure way for people to come here, do honest work, and get life-sustaining resources around the world is removed in favor of some untested system, I will be just as excellent a communicator in being just as honest about why I no longer will support Hive.
(And, YES, I am translating my response into Hive's second and third most important languages so more of the WHOLE COMMUNITY can know what is going on here, and putting this story up top in my weekly Hive newsletter tomorrow so the WHOLE COMMUNITY can know this is on the table.)
En Español
@omarcitorojas, confío en que harás llegar la noticia sobre este tema de la eliminación de recompensas de contenido a la comunidad de habla hispana.
*ESCUCHEN TODOS... La principal distinción de Hive es que Hive literalmente mantiene vivas a las personas a través de ese fondo de recompensas, en todo el mundo, y lo ha hecho durante tres años de pandemia. Hive LITERALMENTE permite a su comunidad VIVIR. Además, aquí tienes a los Hivers adoptando criptomonedas a través del oso: la gente debe prestar atención a lo que @mcsamm, @hivedeb, @hivesucre y @lacasitahive han estado haciendo en particular en sus países de origen, y luego Haga que @skatehive haga un trabajo único.
A partir de hoy, soy el número 1 en gestión patrimonial y el número 7 en finanzas personales en la tienda Kindle de Amazon para mi nuevo libro, y en ese nuevo libro, tengo a Hive en el mismo nivel de consideración que Bitcoin y Ethereum debido a lo que está haciendo en el mundo. Les aseguro que si los testigos de Hive aceptan eliminar todo este progreso que tantos están trabajando para construir, si se elimina a favor una forma segura para que la gente venga aquí, haga un trabajo honesto y obtenga recursos vitales en todo el mundo, de algún sistema no probado, seré un excelente comunicador al ser igualmente honesto acerca de por qué ya no brindaré soporte a Hive.*
Auf Deutsch
@der-prophet, ich vertraue darauf, dass Sie die deutschsprachige Community über dieses Problem der Entfernung von Inhaltsprämien informieren.
*HÖREN SIE ALLE ZU ... Der größte Unterschied von Hive besteht darin, dass Hive die Menschen durch diesen Belohnungspool auf der ganzen Welt buchstäblich am Leben hält, und das auch in den drei Jahren der Pandemie. Hive befähigt seine Community buchstäblich zum LEBEN. Darüber hinaus haben Sie es hier mit Hivers zu tun, der durch den Bären die Krypto-Einführung vorantreibt – die Leute müssen darauf achten, was @mcsamm, @hivedeb, @hivesucre und @lacasitahive insbesondere in ihren Heimatländern getan haben – und dann Sie Lassen Sie @skatehive einzigartige Arbeit leisten.
Ab heute war ich für mein neues Buch die Nr. 1 in der Vermögensverwaltung und die Nr. 7 in der Kategorie Persönliche Finanzen im Amazon Kindle Store – und in diesem neuen Buch habe ich Hive gleichberechtigt mit Bitcoin und Ethereum in Betracht gezogen es tut sich in der Welt. Ich versichere Ihnen, wenn die Zeugen von Hive zustimmen, all diese Fortschritte, an deren Aufbau so viele arbeiten, zunichtezumachen – wenn die Beseitigung einer sicheren Möglichkeit für Menschen, hierher zu kommen, ehrliche Arbeit zu leisten und lebenserhaltende Ressourcen auf der ganzen Welt zu erhalten, zugunsten von Gunsten aufgehoben wird eines ungetesteten Systems werde ich ein ebenso hervorragender Kommunikator sein, der genauso ehrlich darlegen kann, warum ich Hive nicht mehr unterstützen werde.*
Thank you for putting your thoughts out here and you're right about how Hive is helping many in their lives, putting food on people's tables through the rewards pool. I would like to believe that these and many others will be considered when further discussions will ensue. The idea was thrown during the Town Hall and there was not much info except that there will be another session for it.
By the way, congratulations to you on your new book and making it to the top spots in Kindle :)
Thank you so much ... I got to that milestone on just the right day. I want Hive to succeed so much, not just for me, but for all the wonderful people who I have gotten to know, whose lives have been changed -- this idea that would wreck it all pops up too much for me to be silent about it and not take a stand. I intended to make the town hall, but Launch Week has been intense ... but best believe I plan to be at the next town hall!
That's an impressive feat which I believe wasn't easy to achieve :)
It will truly be disheartening if the rewards pool is taken away unless there is another option that rewards people better than how it is done now.
Yes, it's best to attend the next town hall which I believe will be next month (December).
It beggars belief that it's talked about seriously at all... I don't understand. What's wrong with Hive right now, why change something so fundamental? I get it, just throwing an idea around but seriously. Why remove one of the most powerful aspects of this whole Hive experiment? How priveleged a position would one have to be in to consider 'removing the rewards pool' a viable proposition or even a positive? I really need to catch these town halls...
Most of us don't and we have a lot of questions we want to be answered so yes, we should attend the next town hall where this topic might be discussed in detail.
Hive have been a great deal for many people not only onchain but offchain too. Well, am just trying to the whole thing means. Thanks for airing your views here
To simplify: there are people on Hive who are not happy with people like us being rewarded in Hive or HBD, but want to put us on Hive community coins of some kind (take for example, LEO, Neoxian, Luv, and many more) that we will then have to swap through Hive to get back to Bitcoin, which is spendable around the world because it links to so many national coins people spend to deal with their LIVES.
The problem is, the community tokens are only as solid as the people running them, whereas Hive is established and the chain itself does the work in getting the value to content creators. You do your work, the community votes it, you receive your reward and take it and do what you need to do. That's how it's supposed to work. That's the promise that drew most people here. The idea of breaking it is utterly ridiculous. I've already had my experiences with these community coins -- I will name names and tell stories if put to it, with all the mass communication skills I have -- they are only as good as the people running them, and I am increasingly convinced many of them are of the same profit-focused, colonial mindset that presumably Hive is supposed to be a refuge from. I will not, as a descendant of those cruelly enslaved Africans who built the United States without being compensated, stand for Hive changing to just another version of the legacy of the exact same abomination. I will not stand for the high and mighty here, playing with people's lives so they can hoard the value of Hive for themselves while teasing us with their play money!
I concur wholeheartedly!
Wow. You've said a word, Ms. Dee. I can't believe this. Greed is everywhere. An utter disappointment, to say the least.
Fortunately, the community pushback is strong -- a whole lot of us are not going to stand for the foolery of the few on this subject!
You're welcome Deb. And hope you read Deanandmathews explanation below.
Yes, momma....I am getting more light. Thank you
Here here!
Leider verstehe ich nicht ganz in diesem post wie ich dir helfen kann.
Dein Buch habe ich leider erst zur Hälfte gelesen.
Zwei Infos aus deinem Buch hätte ich anders erzählt. 😉
Bitte teilen Sie der deutschen Community mit, dass die Zeugen von Hive darüber nachdenken, Belohnungen zu streichen, damit die Community abwägen kann, ob sie dies wünscht.
Was mein Buch betrifft, nehmen Sie sich Zeit. Ich freue mich über Ihren Beitrag dazu, wie Sie bestimmte Dinge angegangen wären, denn ich lerne immer noch und der Lernprozess in dieser neuen Branche wird nie abgeschlossen sein.
If there are no rewards maybe there might be another way to get rewards from content creation, nothing is impossible. However, since this is a decentralized platform, I believe the opinion of users should matter in the decision on whether or not the rewards pool should be removed.
Yes, there will be further conversations and discussions about this. It isn't a switch that they just flick and boom, it takes effect :)
Appreciate the summary!
So the idea of doing away with the rewards pool has resurfaced. For me, it's a very simple thing - and I say that with almost 25 years experience with content sites that reward user-authors - without the rewards pool Hive is just a hard-to-use and complicated blog site with very little effective external traffic. Even though I don't use it much anymore, my typical Blogger post still gets between 300 to 500 page views in the first 30 days. Writers are fickle, and often starving. Take away the rewards pool and it'll just be "back to Google Adsense."
Layer two for rewards is a nice idea but no community yet seems to have figured out a tokenomics and feature/benefits mix to keep their token worth more than fractions of a cent.
You're welcome.
Does this mean it was thrown around before? They mentioned further conversations will occur in the near future so it would be really interesting to hear what the main motivation for the contentious idea of the pool removal to have come about.
A good question was asked earlier too, even if there will be L2 tokens to reward users, how does that help Hive?
These and many others definitely need answers.
To my recollection more than once.
Usually emotions of greed and avarice disguised as something good for the little guy. It’s just a Hive grab.
Sorry to be so critical, but it’s plain as the nose on my face, as those with the most seek to carve out more. The place already has a healthy number of whales earning whale shares. This only centralized earnings further and reverses the slow decentralized distribution of awards the author/curation rewards are suppose to produce.
I see, thanks for that. It never occurred to me that it has been thrown before. It's okay to air your thoughts no matter how critical they are. Most of us feel the same way - the reward pool is the heart of Hive and taking it away makes no sense.
Thanks.
It’s nice to know so many feel that way.
You put it very well and very succinctly! The value proposition without the rewards pool for the end user is borderline hostile. It's hard enough to post here already! Why take away the possibility of incentive for content creation?
I really need to sit in on one of these town halls. I wonder when the next one is...
Yes, we will have to be there and air our views on the matter.
Agree! Do you know when the next one is? And it's on "X," yeah? 🤔
I've avoided it so far.
If they need a multiparty video call type-thing that's actual privacy-respecting they could use Brave Talk. Doesn't solve the off-chain issue though but would be a marked improvement from the dead bird site
There is no specific date yet but it will surely be shared on threads probably a few days before the show so we will know.
Does threads have push notifications?
There's a live notification but only when you are on the InLeo page.
You may want to follow @town-hall because I believe the account will post the next schedule in advance.
You are an absolute legend @ifarmgirl, thank you (:
That's so kind of you, thank you :)
In case you haven't read, the next Town Hall is happening on December 1st at 11 am EST.😉
Info from HERE.
Thank you 😊
That's 2.30AM in my neck of the woods 😂 😞
You're welcome. It's midnight for me :)
Hmmm...
WA?
Damn this is so spot on with how I feel.
Except I am really disappointed.
removing the awrds pool is a bad idea, as it would change Hive to much. Just my 2 cents worth
Thank you, Eric and it's true, the way Hive rewards have been set up is what really differentiates Hive from others out there.
!CTP
!PIZZA
I also did not like the idea of removing Hive rewards. Incentivization is the core concept of crypto and rewarding content creators enables user activation.
Exactly. And it baffles me a lot why the idea came out. But there might be other sides of the equation that we are not seeing so let's hope to get more clarity in the next discussions.
https://twitter.com/JunaidFazal1111/status/1720379654253539611
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but then I changed my mind.
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Removing reward pool from hive will make it limping. People who get benefited the most of rewards pool are the daily active users. It is seen who got greater stake here, are less active to make busy the frontends. Today's most active users will produce more investors in terms of either their own Investment or bringing whale from outside of hive. Both of them are significant cause 100000 active users may be equals to a Whale.
I am new to hive. Learning continues. Hope to invest some amount in future.
Btw Thanks for providing Knowledge about TH
I thought it is about game. Cause I played a game where TH were the attraction.
Thanks for the updates from behind the scenes.
You said it perfectly and it's great that while you are new, you already understand the idea behind it.
I do believe this will not push through.
Removing the rewards pool is an insane idea. The network effects of Hive would be gone in a moment. The rewards pool is the mechanism by which the community of users come to own the network. While there are other mechanisms that could work in theory, this is the only one that is actually working now in practice, having worked through the problems and growing pains of the last few years.
Hive without the rewards pool is basically a completely different project, so what I would suggest is that if people believe that would be a worthwhile project, they should create it themselves either by forking the Hive blockchain in its current state or starting a completely new blockchain.
+1 Insane
Exactly. It's what makes Hive, Hive as Jessica puts it in her comment. It is not only us who are creating content that get affected but also those who are mainly earning through curation and if I understood correctly, the smaller frontends too.
IIRC, doing away with the reward pool has come up before. It's a bad idea and would destroy Hive. Even after 2 (3? I forget) years we still haven't recovered from the fork from Steemit. Unless I am totally wrong, our numbers are lower than they were and engagement is down. If we stopped rewarding people, people would leave, end of story. People who already have a sizable investment like most of the 5+ year people, they would stay altho their involvement might go down (I certainly wouldn't post daily anymore, which I've done for the past 7 years), but smaller users would just leave. We want to attract people, not repel them.
Well anyway, thank you for the write up. It was in the middle of the night for me, so there was no way I could attend.
Last I heard there was ~80,000 active accounts, say 2 months ago. Don't quote me on it though, I don't know how to get hold of any hard data from the blockchain like that.
There's about 10,000 monthly active commenters and about 120,000+ monthly active accounts overall (mostly accounts which only use dapps like Splinterlands). I ran a query on @hivesql to check.
You're awesome. Interesting data. Is the trend up, down or maybe more a plateau? Would be great to learn how to hivesql
My query only checked the last few months, but based on @arcange's stats we are at a low point at the moment.
Such is life for the Hive!
Yes, it was mentioned by Denmarkguy that this isn't the first time the idea has came up. It intrigues me why. Although I also think it is bad for the blockchain and most of us if not all will be very unhappy.
Let's hope this idea gets dropped.
https://twitter.com/lee19389/status/1720402643208536090
#hive #posh
Ano na kaya mangyayari pag ganun? Baka magsibalikan mga tao sa Steem, or onboard sa Blurt.
Magsilayas na siguro tayo unless may mas better na reward system na ipapalit kung sakali.
Hmm
Removing the reward pool on Hive may be quite risky though
Some people here come online because of that
That's true. It is what keeps us here (content creators and curators alike)
I don't really see the need why the reward pool on hive should be removed because that's one of the uniqueness of hive
Yes, most of us think the same thing. It is what makes it Hive.
Not to take away from my other comment on this post but after sleeping on it... I have a very clear sentiment about the removal of the Rewards Pool that can be summed up like this:
Hear hear!
Actually, if group posting can be done using a single account, then we can even think of having a community whatsapp group posting their live events to the chain. For example for apartment maintenance work, hive can be a niche back end, which can be verified.
Oh, that's a great idea indeed! I'm pretty excited to try the open beta. I was checking the site (https://crypto-dreamer.com) but I cannot access it. Or perhaps I got it wrong.
i totally agree!! and it they remove the reward pool they will ruin hive.
Like what others say, it's an insane idea to begin with. But let's see what's the reason behind the proposal and Rondon mentioned in the comment to this post that he will be publishing a post about it.
If you got rid of the reward pool no one would post anymore lol Unless a layer two token stepped in and accumulated value along the lines of what LEO is doing. Then hive could take a back step and be just a blockchain of resources for applications. It very well might come to that one day.
It would amount to a bunch of the larger players, curators and frontend developers/maintainers having milked the work of content creators for their own gain to the point where they can 'cut loose' the very people that add real value to the blockchain... thus disenfranchising them.
Whether that is true or not would be irrelevant but that it is how it would look from an outsider's perspective.
Just my perspective.
I agree and why it should not even be considered.
Yeah it is really bad just from an 'optics' standpoint.
Bad is too kind ,it is shocking to even have people as witnesses raising this.
For a witness @r0nd0n doesn't have much stake in the game when it comes to HIVE, so of course he wants to funnel all your rewards over to witnessing. This guy is jsut a clown and should not be given the time of day. If he can somehow get the top 20 witnesses to collude to shift all or a majority of the rewards over to themselves hive will die. The only thing we can do is not vote for this douchebag and also not support the witnesses that back this retarded idea.
If this were to go through we could see a huge dump in the price of hive down to under a penny (i.e like where BLURT is now) mainly as the witnesses reduce their unnecessary extra bags of hive.
The future of HIVE in the scenario with rewards given to views instead of curation will just create an ecosystem with a million fake accounts to increase certain post views. Sure we can take this route, but it would be a lot easier to leave well enough alone in this case.
Some people just want to see hive die, I've seen that r0ndon guy in Discord and he is a jerk, can't be trusted, so follow him at your own peril. lol
this whole conversation is just a bad joke created to instill fear and drama, typical r0ndon!
Thank you for your input. I do have a strong feeling that the idea won't get the support of the majority. Although yes, it did bring controversy.
Thanks for the summary.
I hope to catch a recording of the meeting.
Disappointed by the talk of the rewards pool going away and more disappointed that founders supported it.
It sounds like centralization and quite frankly very disappointing that they would even favor removing a core part of the abundance economy of Hive. But Hive is a reflection of society at large, so it is expected to contain the good, the bad and the ugly.
Nice engagement on this post @ifarmgirl
You seem to have hit a nerve.
The topic stirs us up so yes, many nerves which is a natural reaction.
Indeed true. It is natural to react to the taking of that which we have become accustomed to earning.
Life is about the rich devising ways of getting richer at the expense of the little guys.
Removing the rewards pool sounds more of the same.
It certainly would massively reduce the user base. I would be unstaking and gone in a heartbeat.
The thought of this even being bandied about, does make me want to reevaluate whether Hive is actually the platform for me after all!
I never thought in a million years that I would second guess my decision to stick with Hive... but yeah the above quote sums it up for me also.
It's baffling, Tito Ed that the idea even came out. I read this wasn't the first time. It seems it had been thrown before too.
The rewards pool is the heart of Hive and let's be honest, it's what keeps people here. If it gets removed, I think most of us would be out in a jiffy.
We shall see what's behind the idea. Rondon said he would write a post about it.
I appreciate the level headed summary of facts you presented. There are a lot of things that complicate this idea that I proposed, and it's definitely not something to be taken lightly as it has many obvious downsides. I will be publishing and expanding on my reasoning behind it soon, and give it the respect it deserves.
The idea alone sure got the pitchforks in motion. Looking forward to that post explaining your perspective.
I have done my best to only attack the idea as foggy as that is to all of us who did not demean ourselves by partaking in the Web2 'Town Hall'.
Just keeping it real here.
There are definitely a lot of things to consider and we look forward to reading your post about it and hopefully will get a better understanding of the reasons behind the idea.
I am interested to find out about the reasoning you had behind it. That should have been the highlighted aspect of the conversation, but I don't blame what most default to. This does not mean I support or not the idea. For now, just want to know more about why you have thought about it and the reasons behind it.
I'm trying to get out a post, but the holidays have put me behind. I'm going to try and polish it up to have it posted tomorrow.
Removing the reward pool would be taking it a step too far in my opinion. The masses will not come and will go somewhere else if there is no incentives. Having front ends in charge of rewards is just too risky and we know how that will end up.
Most of us think/feel the same way. If it is taken away then Hive will no longer be 'Hive.' Rondon mentioned he would be posting about his reasons behind the idea.
No reason could justify such action and this would set Hive back years and it would never achieve what it could. Too much fiddling of the core things that make hive special is dangerous and stupid and there must be an alternative motive for this. The idea that this has been raised is not only concerning, but why would anyone stick around. The idea you can grow your account and strive challenging yourself to do better is part of the fun factor here.
Yes, it doesn't make sense to fiddle on something that is working well.
I agree. It's what makes me and others show up every single day - setting challenges for ourselves and working on them.
I would agree on removing the rewards pool, only and exclusively if our community as a collective agreed in investing many other tons of further several hundred thousand dollars buying rally cars to promote, market and advertise our "social network" on the blockchain more efficiently.
As the only secure way possible that hive could be at the sight of the whole world and therefore attract and onboard a humongous number of real investors and true millionaires to our platform who undoubtedly would be willing to reward to us all the poor content creators with generous and juicy tips directly from their wealthy wallets, instead of the mere four cents coming from the rewards pool.
Quite a bargain hehe. I have high hopes that the rewards pool will not go anywhere. Rondon has to convince the majority of stakeholders and users before it happens.
Very informative post, thank you for shearing what you learned.
It is my pleasure, thank you BigSweed :)
Sounds allot like moving towards a pay to play model (if new users can't earn HIVE for content creating they will need to purchase it in order to interact with the blockchain). Such a model requires a very large user-base to succeed. This is because most users simply won't pay as there are endless of other socials out there that offer ways to earn for content creating. The ones that don't offer rewards get away with it due to their massive user-base. I see making this change at current time as a very risky move. If the goal is to minimize content creation, removing the reward pool will do just that. The core supporters will likely continue to create but it will just make things significantly harder to onboard new users. That is not to say that at some point in time shifting the current system to only reward second lawyer tokens won't work (it very well might) but I believe we need a much (MUCH) bigger user base for such a thing to flourish.
Yes, the active user base here in terms of people creating content (commenting and posting) is just about 10k if I'm not mistaken so getting rid of the rewards pool isn't sensible unless there is another way to incentivize people.
Even when L2 tokens can be used to reward people, the question would be, what then becomes of HIVE? It is a controversial subject and even Rondon said it is not something to be taken lightly. I'm quite sure that this idea won't go far because as some people pointed out, it will have a negative impact in the governance of the blockchain.
Hello, @ifarmgirl, thank you for making this post, at this time I would like to express an observation, not only from my person, but for the criticism of some organizations and institutions that have worked in the cryptocurrency sector in my town, Cumana, Sucre State and in central areas of Venezuela.
And I know that the following criticism will be poison for some who do not want to talk about the subject, or want the subject to be unknown, however, as I am a simple imbecile for many here, I will give my opinion as an observer.
It is really sad the fact of what is happening to Hive, since its monopolization, corruptions and the forced silence of many people ("If you don't delete that we will stop curing you", "I will make your life impossible in Hive" AND MORE), and the departure of some important whales, because they have no need to endure this kind of community problems.
The obligation to shut up and not say what we think, what we really want for the ecosystem and that our projects are valued as they truly deserve it and the worst thing is that we are not able to say what we think.
While new cryptocurrency organizations and Exchanges come in and take every opportunity to use, promote, expand and more about this type of marketplace, the greater Hive community is dedicated to self-sabotage, and now wanting to do this with tokens is one of the long list of problems, and is an absolute disgrace to many who have been working for the good of this ecosystem for YEARS.
Hive is collapsing more and more, and there is no need to make a very extensive analysis of that fact, as it has become very noticeable.
If you are going to cancel me, mark my words, this was brought on by all those who erased transparency in Hive and silenced thousands.
I'll see you from another place the day I get cancelled, and god willing the ecosystem doesn't fall any further than it has.
They took so much from us, they even took away our fear.
Hello and thank you for not being afraid to put your thoughts and observations out here. I really appreciate you sharing them in the open so that those of us who are not aware may get informed.
I am utterly shocked by the revelation I've read from you and it's saddening that such is happening. I hope that we still keep on and stay transparent. No one should be censored here and if someone is trying to do that, he/she better stop or just leave the chain.
Damn. That sounds like an insane idea to remove the Hive reward pool oO
But I understand the logic behind it to stop Ai and/or DV abuse.
But I don't think it would be worth it. As users have said, it will change hive to something else.
It would change the core of Hive completely.
I also don't think that DV or AI abuse is enough for the reward pool to be removed. I do believe that it will not be supported by the majority.
True, like I get it. But still, not worth it
As many has said, the Hive rewards pool is what makes unique,get rid of it and you'll kill Hive. What would be good is to use the reward pool so it helps to add value to Hive, such as rewards based on engagement as well as author and curation, and also a multiplier reward for those who stake and don't withdraw.
Too many people don't have the long term view for Hive, and the reward pool is help fueling that
That's right and it's baffling why Rondon initiated the idea and he may have his reasons which he mentioned he will share via a post.
I totally support this. It would definitely spur more participation and perhaps encourage those who do not see a long-term vision for Hive.
What was the rationale behind this absurd idea? @rondon was the one who suggested it? Did he give any reasons why? Why do we need even to discuss this?
He didn't give any reason during the Town Hall. He did say he would publish a post to explain.
Hello, @ifarmgirl This is an awesome post by you. And WOW - The idea of removing the Hive rewards pool is an awful idea. Having no rewards pool would ruin Hive and cause Hivers to leave and to be completely fed up. A lot of us came to Hive to get away from the traditional way of trying to earn. Hive is very unique this way, and I have gotten to know more people by using the rewards pool. The rewards pool is a great incentive to keep people going, keep writing, and to continue commenting on the topics. Once you get completely into a subject you are passionate about, one does not think of the reward pool anymore as just rewards of income but rewards of sharing and enjoying as well with a much deeper connection. Hive would not be the Hive ecosystem it has been for all of us. The rewards pool, when done properly, and by the rules is what makes Hive so special. I feel a much deeper connection lately the longer I am here, and I feel much more secure in the current Hive environment. Thanks for posting this important topic @ifarmgirl Have a nice new week ahead! Barb 🌟🌟👍😊🌟🌟 !BBH !CTP
Thank you so much for your input, Barb. Most of us are on the same page about the reward pool. It is what makes Hive the blockchain we know and removing it is like stripping it of its uniqueness.
Let's hope that will not happen and that we continue making this chain our cyber homes.
!LUV
You're most welcome @ifarmgirl And I completely agree with you. Hive would be destroyed without the reward pool. It's a reward pool that comes in time with unconditional loving and caring of others. Hive is indeed unique in this world! Have a great rest of the week! !BBH !CTP
Wow! This brought quite heated discussion about! Thanks for the summary, sis. I need to attend one of those Town Halls. Give us a ping in Discord ;)
!ALIVE
@ifarmgirl! You Are Alive so I just staked 0.1 $ALIVE to your account on behalf of @ fantagira. (4/10)
The tip has been paid for by the We Are Alive Tribe through the earnings on @alive.chat, feel free to swing by our daily chat any time you want, plus you can win Hive Power (2x 50 HP) and Alive Power (2x 500 AP) delegations (4 weeks), and Ecency Points (4x 50 EP), in our chat every day.
It sure did sis. Thank you and yes, I will send a message there when the next schedule is set :)
!LUV
Madness. Not many of the witnesses post anymore. Some never did. So no wonder it's come up. Don't hear of any rumblings about getting rid of the massive DHF fund though. Maybe they should look to at restructuring this first before thinking about reward pools for the normal users . Give more back to the content creators (views , engagement models etc,) which will in turn grow the userbase by higher rewards like it did in last bull run . Job done without touching post rewards. Now why wouldn't this happen I wonder 🤔🤔🤔.
As far as I can tell, most seem to now agree with the removal of the rewards pool so it's just a talk for now.
Some people suggested this, rewarding users based on their activities. It will be interesting to see how it goes. I read that 3Speak is working on the Breakaway communities thing where every activity (reblog, comment, upvote etc) earns points and might be the basis of how users are rewarded. I might have misunderstood it though so let's see when it comes live.