The Influence of Proxy Accounts on Hive Governance

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Since the Leofinance DHF proposal may have may stirred the interest of Hivers who don't normally get involved in the governance of Hive, I thought it is a good time for this kind of post, which discusses one aspect of Hive governance - proxies.

What Represents Governance on Hive?

By governance on Hive, we mean voting on base-layer witnesses and on DHF proposals.

The governance voting power each account has is based on its own HIVE Power (including the delegated out HP, excluding the delegated in HP), plus the HP proxied to it.

There is a different governance at the level of sidechains (Hive-Engine, DLUX, SPK Network, etc.), but we are not discussing them here.

What Are Governance Proxy Accounts on Hive?

On Hive, someone can set a different account to act as his or her proxy in governance. Like delegations work for curation or resource credits for access, the account with the proxied HP takes the governance decisions and the account that has set the proxy can at any time remove or change its proxy account.

If the proxy account is removed, then the owner account has once again control over its own governance votes.

Understanding How Governance Proxy Votes Work

When someone sets a proxy account, he or she delegates the governance voting power to the proxy account. If the owner account votes on governance (basically on a DHF proposal, because front ends don't allow him or her to vote on witnesses when he or she has a proxy set), the vote is ignored. What matters is the vote of the proxy account.

Someone cannot delegate the governance votes to the proxy account on some votes and not on others. Otherwise said, this is all or nothing. You either delegate your governance votes or you don't, and you manage it yourself.

Options When You Disagree with Your Proxy Account Choices

If you disagree with your proxy account choices, or its lack of action, you have three options:

  • you contact your proxy account holder and discuss the matter with him/her - note that the proxy account holder isn't accountable to you (as a witness you voted for would be, to some extent), since normally he or she didn't ask you to proxy your HP to him or her nor promised you a certain level of governance implication or a certain line of voting if you do set it as a proxy; a proxy account just does his governance actions as he or she sees fit for his own account and everyone who proxy their HP to this account follows these actions pretty much like the delegated HP votes on the content the delegatee votes on
  • you change your proxy account
  • you remove the proxy and get involved in governance yourself (that means both voting for witnesses and DHF proposals)

My Stance on Proxy Accounts

Proxy accounts are useful on Hive. When we are talking about the same persons controlling multiple accounts - whether personal or for business purposes - setting one proxy helps control the Hive governance actions from one account. Less work than to vote from multiple accounts on the same thing. So, it's convenient, while also not impacting decentralization.

When we are talking about different people proxying their HP to one account, I don't have the same stance.

While it's convenient for the account holder, by proxying your HP to another account, you reduce the decentralization of Hive. Where more should be involved, centers of power are formed instead, with (much) higher influence.

I understand that not everyone wants to be involved in governance, and setting a proxy is a way to delegate their governance voting power to someone they trust.

But just like it is important to manually curate yourself as much as possible instead of delegating your HP to various projects for dividends paid from their own curation, delegating governance votes has the same effect: concentrates power.

Manually curating and voting on governance are two of the easiest ways YOU (and each of us) can contribute to Hive.

In Closing

Proxy accounts are useful. I use them myself to proxy my HP from all accounts to one account. Like every useful tool, depending on how it is used, it can start to have detrimental effects at some point.

I'm not sure if the last change brought to governance to make votes expire after a while of not doing any governance action also affects proxies. Are they reset if accounts who have set proxies are long inactive? Anyone knows?

Posted Using LeoFinance Alpha



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34 comments
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Well, there is no doubt that proxy accounts are useful but it depends on the motive of the user
Such accounts should be used well

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As with most tools, they can be great until they are used in various ways and unexpected results happen.

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Proxy account's are indeedvery useful and reliable sometimes we need some authentic waye to applied for our work prposes.

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What do you mean by authentic ways? Do you have an example?

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I agree 100% with you on ALL that you stated in the post! I do use proxies for my personal accounts, but I highly discourage others to set proxy to other people as decentralization lose sense... I would say that it's even better to NOT use your vote than to give it to someone else to manage it!

The same goes with the HP delegation which I said multiple times in my posts, too... Yes, I do have a curation account on Liotes, but I don't want that people delegate ALL their power for dividends that are higher than manual curation... Maybe just a small % to show support and appreciation for the curator's work, but not ALL...

Thanks for bringing this topic up!

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Hive is much more than a social platform. It is an economy and that's one of the characteristics of Web3. If people instead of using their power (whether curation or governance power) to show what they support and what they don't, they delegate the responsibility away, this is not what Web 3 is all about (self-custody with the responsibility of your own actions). It is Web 2 in disguise.

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If people instead of using their power (whether curation or governance power) to show what they support and what they don't, they delegate the responsibility away, this is not what Web 3 is all about (self-custody with the responsibility of your own actions). It is Web 2 in disguise.

I have a feeling that people aren't ready for Web3 yet... It is "too much" responsibility for people who are brainwashed that all their problems will be solved by someone else, the government, banks that care about people, fake leaders, etc... I just hope that we will not go backward and return to Web2, as the road to Web3 will take some more time...

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I have the same feeling. And they certainly make efforts to disguise various forms of Web2 as Web3, so they are not ready to give up. Since users aren't ready either, looks like this is going to be a looong process.

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Proxy accounts looks like a nice idea but what happens when they are inactive? Should their vote also degrade over time like it does for some of the inactive accounts or does it stay the same?

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Actually, that was my question at the end. I am not sure how it is handled right now, if proxies are also removed after the inactivity time for governance actions expires, or if it is just votes.

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I have a feeling that it get updated because of the way it checks votes, but I am not sure.

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Apart from being active, will a proxy account completely represent all the account proxying them? I think it's good sometimes, but sometimes I only try to proxy in an open-closed situation, and remove afterwards.

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but sometimes I only try to proxy in an open-closed situation, and remove afterwards.

Yeah, but that means that every time you remove a proxy you have to reset the governance votes yourself to your preferences.

Otherwise, I completely agree. It's rarely the case when one would agree with all the votes the proxy makes (that is if that person even cares to check, which most won't after they set a proxy).

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Most won't check, they complexly trust the choices of the proxy, one-time and never even bother to check again. To me this feels not too decentralized.

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(Edited)

Well, that's why warnings and reminders are good from time to time. To be fair, there are more than a few centers of power on Hive (a few dozen, I'd say), so there is some decentralization, but that can be improved. As we know, centralization is efficient... but it is also corrupt.

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Having multiple accounts and proxy them all into one account that you own is a very useful way to cast votes with your combined stake. But other than that, I think its much better to make your own votes and strengthen the spirit of decentralization. For me, It feels empowering :)

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For me, It feels empowering :)

For me too! It is important to build up your own stake and use it. Even if you delegate some of it for certain (temporary) purposes, the goal must be to back your voice with a growing stake (since it's a stake-based voting system) and make your contribution this way too to the decentralization of Hive.

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I trust my proxy to vote in a way that would make sense to me.

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I don't know who your proxy is, but that's quite a lot of trust since rarely two people have EXACTLY the same opinions. I hope you check from time to time.

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Good Morning, @gadrian, I will have to give it a look once in a while just to know what's going on. Trust but verify.
Have a great day and rest of the week.😆

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Trust but verify.

That's a good way to do it. Verification is important.

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Yeah, more now than ever, @gadrian!
Enjoy your day today😆
!ALIVE
!BBH
CTP

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@gadrian! You Are Alive so I just staked 0.1 $ALIVE to your account on behalf of @lisamgentile1961. (9/20)

The tip has been paid for by the We Are Alive Tribe through the earnings on @alive.chat, feel free to swing by our daily chat any time you want, plus you can win Hive Power and Alive Power delegations and Ecency Points in our chat every day.

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