Something Good Came From All the HBD Interest Rate Talk

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While in a true debate, things may get heated up before common ground is reached (if that happens), it is much better, although less efficient, than dictatorship.

That's one of many reasons we love Hive and its decentralized nature, don't we? That is reflected in how infrastructure is organized and accessed, but also in the way some decisions are taken in a much more democratic way than in most places I have knowledge of in the cryptosphere. And I can tell you from experience, it goes beyond HP sometimes, which you won't find anywhere else. Social "stake" matters too!

Regardless of the final consensus on what will happen with the HBD interest rate (short-term or medium-term), I believe the passion of both sides showed the devs (many of whom consensus witnesses) that more dev work needs to be done at the core level around HBD to accommodate various types of investors while not putting serious pressure on the chain.


Source

I believe everyone knows how the savings account for HBD works right now.

You add liquid HBD to your savings account any time you want. From the time you add them to savings, they start generating interest, which can be collected once every 30 days globally (for everything you deposited in the savings account), by adding or removing as little as 0.001 HBD to the savings account (interfaces can have this process automated for you).

One of the contentious points of earning a 20% APR for HBD in the savings account seems to be the minimum lockup period. In fact, there is no lockup period (and no fees, since we are on Hive). You can add HBD to savings now and withdraw it a couple of seconds later. What exists is a 3-day delay after you hit withdraw (which, by the way, can be canceled). One doesn't earn interest while the HBD is delayed and waiting to be withdrawn, but just wanted to remark that technically a withdrawal delay is different than a lockup period (which would assume that the account holder can't touch the respective HBD for the respective lockup period of time).

So... a talk about multiple lockup periods for HBD with different APRs, lower for shorter durations and higher for longer ones existed for a significant amount of time on Hive. It may have started with Task, or it may have preceded his ideas about the second-layer bond system.

But nothing happened. And for something to happen, time locks at the core level need to be implemented first.

So it is my opinion that this debate around the 20% APR showed devs that time locks for HBD need to be prioritized.

Blocktrades revealed in the latest talk about HBD on the CTT podcast that they are going to work on time locks for HBD. It may be for the next hardfork if it will be postponed long enough, or for the following one, but certainly is on their radar now while in the past it wasn't from my memory of the discussion with Blocktrades at CryptoManiacs probably about a year back.

I've been a proponent of time locks (not sure they were called that way back then) ever since the topic came to be. It is something people sort of understand from working with banks their entire lives, although they can break classical term deposits at banks and lose all the interest. With a bond system at the second layer, this isn't necessary, because that provides the needed liquidity, but at the same time adds complexity for those who want to keep it simple... These are two systems that could very well work in parallel, like in the present economy.

It is also a normal tradeoff. In one of the arguments I read a few days ago, someone asked "Why should someone be paid 20% for doing nothing?" and a good reply was "That someone is doing something - keeps money on Hive!". The reply was good, but still, there is no way to know how committed that person is to deserve 20% yield on a stablecoin. Time locks will fix that.

Posted Using LeoFinance Alpha



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The question is how long of a lock is sufficient. Like does percentage increase as it stays locked longer and longer?

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(Edited)

No. One would likely have to choose from the start where to lock the HBD and for what period (and at what APR - which remains constant for the entire lockup period, regardless of how the interest rates fluctuate after that). After the period expires, I imagine it would have to be claimed and relocked to continue to earn interest. Otherwise, someone would lock HBD for a certain period, and, if the interest keeps going afterward normally and the HBD has no time lock, the whole point of the time lock is missed after the initial period passes.

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Hmm, but can the witnesses lower the APR during the lock? Like does it apply after the lock period expiration?

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From discussions, what's been locked remains at a fixed APR, regardless of the changes in witness APRs after that. But we will see.

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I really appreciate you posting these updates on what's happening in Hive. I am very interested in the HBD talk since I want to accumulate more because of that sweet 20% interest.

Were there any info on the suggested time locks? I'm also guessing that the interest earned shouldn't be affected by this time lock right?

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I don't know which time locks will be chosen. Most likely the 30 days one will be added. Probably the 90 days too. 1 year often comes up.

The interest will depend on the time lock you choose and on the interest at the time you lock your HBD. There will be a low interest for no time lock or 3 days we have now, and starting from 30 days onward the interest will probably go higher the higher the time lock is.

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That makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

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I mentioned it in my video that an investor might decide to keep HBD for the 20% and not be sentimentally attached to hive or be after it's growth. However, the fact that their Money is in the ecodyem is something. Afterall we're trying to sell HBD as a lucrative stablecoin. I like to see how the idea of locks will go. Will it be, lock for a longer period for higher APR?

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I mentioned it in my video that an investor might decide to keep HBD for the 20% and not be sentimentally attached to hive or be after it's growth. However, the fact that their Money is in the ecodyem is something.

Yes indeed. We can't neglect the importance of attracting capital and considering it "doing nothing". Capital moves the world, as much as we like it or not how it's being utilized.

Will it be, lock for a longer period for higher APR?

Yes, that's their approach to it from the talks so far. Although, there will be independent APRs set for each time lock, so I guess it depends on how they are set and updated in time. Normally, a longer lock should be incentivized.

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Yes, that's their approach to it from the talks so far. Although, there will be independent APRs set for each time lock, so I guess it depends on how they are set and updated in time. Normally, a longer lock should be incentivized.

I think this should solve the problem. Earning a more Incentivizing APR comes at a cost, and then it's not left for the investor to decide if they want that.

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As I said in my recent post, things aren't black and white, and these discussions that we had around the HBD APR are a perfect example of that! As the idea of lowering the APR "kind of failed" as people really like that juicy 20 %, something other had to be thrown to "please" everyone... These locks could be a good solution, but I really hope that we will not go over those 20% as that would be too crazy...

The urge to print money shouldn't be the priority... 🙂

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I believe throwing in new features to enhance what we currently have isn't a bad idea, even if that comes to appease further disagreements on the subject.

I suppose this should be a discussion when the time comes. It depends on the lock times too. We also have to take into consideration the alternatives such investors have and the profile of risk Hive is for them, plus the reduced liquidity for HBD. And the risk a higher locked-in interest rate poses to Hive. But yeah, 20% is pretty high in most scenarios I can think of.

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But yeah, 20% is pretty high in most scenarios I can think of.

Yeah... IMO, it will be a compromise for the current situation... APR for the current "type" of savings will go down, but other locked-staking options would go up to 20%...
I mean, I don't have a crystal ball, but that could be an acceptable solution for everyone...

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Sounds pretty standard. 20% is too high with minimal lockup, but for longer durations, it shows that HBD doesn't move as freely and there is predictability as to when interest and principal are unlocked.

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Good to hear that it is on their radar now! I think time locks for HBD will be a great solution, catering to the different needs and preferences of Hive users. I'm not sure if the basic savings will continue to be around when time lock on HBD launches?

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I'm not sure if the basic savings will continue to be around when time lock on HBD launches?

I'm not sure either how the implementation will be. But I believe a 3-day option will continue to exist, either in the form it exists now or as a lockup with immediate moving to liquid HBD at the end. The latter sounds more complicated to code, because of permissions and the fact the active key is needed both when you lock the funds up and when they would be pulled out after 3 days.

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Right. The 3 days waiting period to access funds is a good option and I think many will still prefer it irrespective of the duration they may choose to lock their HBD.

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Hi @gadrian Thank you for your post on "Something Good Came From All the HBD Interest Rate Talk". I don't understand it and will have to read it over when I can focus better. Have a great week! Barb ✨✨👍😊 !BBH !CTP #ctp

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Sure, Barb, read it again later. And ask me what you don't understand.

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The time locks sounds interesting. Is that the bonds that taskmaster has been talking about? I guess that could be an alternative.

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That's the base layer stuff needed for the bonds system to be developed by dapps on the second layer. It can be used independently from the second layer, if one doesn't need the liquidity associated with the HBD while it's locked.

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Well, the idea is not bad even though so many of us including me may not be cool with it but we've got no choice

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There's gotta be a tradeoff. 20% APR for a 3-day withdrawal period can make things worse for everyone given enough time.

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I believe the status quo in that case is better because it incentivizes people to increase their HBD position. A time lock already exists in many DeFi protocols...

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Yes, time locks already exist in defi and in the banking system (sort of). A 3-day withdrawal delay also increases the chances of unexpected dumping on HIVE from HBD whales.

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I love the idea of a "social stake" more powerful than a tokens stake. 😆

. . . by adding or removing as little as 0.001 HBD to the savings account (interfaces can have this process automated for you).

I thought it was weird that I saw a few times in my account and stopped it manually.

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I love the idea of a "social stake" more powerful than a tokens stake.

Actually, I love their combination more, and it's unique to Hive.

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Good to know that Hive has such unique characteristics.

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. . . time locks for HBD need to be prioritized.

. . . but certainly is on their radar now. . .

Interesting development.

I could not understand that question of saving HBD as doing nothing? Saving in itself is a form activism.

!PIZZA

!BBH

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I could not understand that question of saving HBD as doing nothing? Saving in itself is a form activism.

I think the commenter referred to the fact HBD interest is passive income, as opposed to author + curation rewards. Often being treated by comparison, although they have nothing in common, other than being on Hive.

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